Yet more Anzac upgrades
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Yet more Anzac upgrades
Hi all, as we are all aware, the Anzacs have gone through three major iterations.
As delivered (the infamous fitted for but not with)
As upgraded with the initial CEAFar phased array radars but retaining the SPS-49 on top of the mast.
And now the latest standard, which replaces the outdated SPS-49 with additional phased arrays.
Well the RAN having, much to their surprise, discovered they won't have an Anzac replacement until 2033 at the earliest, given the incessant delays and size and cost growth of the Hunters, is looking at another upgrade of the Anzacs.
This one won't do too much with the sensors, which are better than any other Meko 200 in service anywhere, instead its the weapons. They've recently completed a design review which suggest the following can be undertaken on the RAN's Anzacs.
The 5 inch will stay up forward, but the Harpoons will be removed, given they are now hopelessly out of date for fighting any half-way competent navy. They will be replaced by a new missile, almost certainly the Naval Strike Missile, which is an anti-ship and land-attack missile developed by the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence. NSM is stealthy and far more capable, and can be fired from ships, subs and aircraft, basically the Harpoon for the 2020s.
The NSMs will be relocated to the same place every other MEKO 200 operator in the world places their anti-ship missiles, behind the bridge and forward of the funnels and mainmast.
The reason for this is to free the space ahead of the bridge currently occupied by the Harpoons with an 8 cell Mk 41 vertical launch system, which will be quad-packed with evolved Sea Sparrows, adding an additional 32 surface to air missiles.
Further to this, the current 8 cell VLS behind the funnels is actually only using half the space the class was designed for. This shot of Warramunga and Ballarat from above shows the blank area alongside the current VLS behind the funnels.
The intention is to install this second 8 cell VLS into the class.
This will take the class to their maximum weight limits, using up the last growth margin in the class, but would give the Anzacs a total of 24 self-defence length Mk41 VLS cells.
The self defence length cells can carry Sea Sparrow (1 per cell) which was upgraded to Evolved Sea Sparrow (which can carry 4 missiles per cell).
The tactical length are almost twice as long and can carry a much wider range of missiles, including Standard long range Surface to Air missiles.
The strike length is much longer and can carry Tomahawk land attack missiles and the very long ranged Standard SM-3 and SM-6 missiles.
The Hobart class carry 48 strike length VLS systems, allowing them to be fitted with SM-3 and SM-6, and they will be fitted with Tomahawk missiles, as recently announced by the government.
The Anzacs can't carry the longer tactical or strike length VLS, but if they end up getting the additional two 8 cell VLS launchers that means an Anzac can carry 96 quad-packed evolved Sea Sparrow.
The original Sea Sparrow is an old missile that was fired from a trainable 8 cell box launcher, with a range of about 10 nautical miles.
ESSM is a completely different kettle of fish, being a vertical launch missile with a range of 30+ nautical miles, about the same range as the original Tartar SAM carried by the Perth class DDGs.
If this upgrade goes ahead, it would mean that each Anzac could contribute to task force air defence, with the Hobart using Standard to pick off targets at long range, and using the Aegis system and cooperative engagement capability to designate targets for the Anzac's ESSM as they get closer.
Given every cell that carries a Tomahawk is one less carrying air defence missiles, it means that more cells on a Hobart can be used to carry land attack missiles, because each post-upgrade Anzac contributes an additional 96 SAMs rather than the current 32.
If this goes through, its designed to make the surface fleet better able to defend itself and any other vessels being escorted from a massed missile attack (looking at you China). This would be critical in defending high value targets such as Canberra, Adelaide, Choules and the Supply class replenishment ships.
Given the improvements in radars, missiles and computers, it's probably as good as a US carrier group with two Tico's and a couple of other cruisers, destroyers and frigates back in the late 1980s could have hoped to achieve, and they were designed to stop Russian saturation missile attacks.
If approved, it will mean the Anzacs remain capable right through till they pay off, once the interminably-delayed Hunters finally come into service sometime in the mid-2030s.
Mike
As delivered (the infamous fitted for but not with)
As upgraded with the initial CEAFar phased array radars but retaining the SPS-49 on top of the mast.
And now the latest standard, which replaces the outdated SPS-49 with additional phased arrays.
Well the RAN having, much to their surprise, discovered they won't have an Anzac replacement until 2033 at the earliest, given the incessant delays and size and cost growth of the Hunters, is looking at another upgrade of the Anzacs.
This one won't do too much with the sensors, which are better than any other Meko 200 in service anywhere, instead its the weapons. They've recently completed a design review which suggest the following can be undertaken on the RAN's Anzacs.
The 5 inch will stay up forward, but the Harpoons will be removed, given they are now hopelessly out of date for fighting any half-way competent navy. They will be replaced by a new missile, almost certainly the Naval Strike Missile, which is an anti-ship and land-attack missile developed by the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence. NSM is stealthy and far more capable, and can be fired from ships, subs and aircraft, basically the Harpoon for the 2020s.
The NSMs will be relocated to the same place every other MEKO 200 operator in the world places their anti-ship missiles, behind the bridge and forward of the funnels and mainmast.
The reason for this is to free the space ahead of the bridge currently occupied by the Harpoons with an 8 cell Mk 41 vertical launch system, which will be quad-packed with evolved Sea Sparrows, adding an additional 32 surface to air missiles.
Further to this, the current 8 cell VLS behind the funnels is actually only using half the space the class was designed for. This shot of Warramunga and Ballarat from above shows the blank area alongside the current VLS behind the funnels.
The intention is to install this second 8 cell VLS into the class.
This will take the class to their maximum weight limits, using up the last growth margin in the class, but would give the Anzacs a total of 24 self-defence length Mk41 VLS cells.
The self defence length cells can carry Sea Sparrow (1 per cell) which was upgraded to Evolved Sea Sparrow (which can carry 4 missiles per cell).
The tactical length are almost twice as long and can carry a much wider range of missiles, including Standard long range Surface to Air missiles.
The strike length is much longer and can carry Tomahawk land attack missiles and the very long ranged Standard SM-3 and SM-6 missiles.
The Hobart class carry 48 strike length VLS systems, allowing them to be fitted with SM-3 and SM-6, and they will be fitted with Tomahawk missiles, as recently announced by the government.
The Anzacs can't carry the longer tactical or strike length VLS, but if they end up getting the additional two 8 cell VLS launchers that means an Anzac can carry 96 quad-packed evolved Sea Sparrow.
The original Sea Sparrow is an old missile that was fired from a trainable 8 cell box launcher, with a range of about 10 nautical miles.
ESSM is a completely different kettle of fish, being a vertical launch missile with a range of 30+ nautical miles, about the same range as the original Tartar SAM carried by the Perth class DDGs.
If this upgrade goes ahead, it would mean that each Anzac could contribute to task force air defence, with the Hobart using Standard to pick off targets at long range, and using the Aegis system and cooperative engagement capability to designate targets for the Anzac's ESSM as they get closer.
Given every cell that carries a Tomahawk is one less carrying air defence missiles, it means that more cells on a Hobart can be used to carry land attack missiles, because each post-upgrade Anzac contributes an additional 96 SAMs rather than the current 32.
If this goes through, its designed to make the surface fleet better able to defend itself and any other vessels being escorted from a massed missile attack (looking at you China). This would be critical in defending high value targets such as Canberra, Adelaide, Choules and the Supply class replenishment ships.
Given the improvements in radars, missiles and computers, it's probably as good as a US carrier group with two Tico's and a couple of other cruisers, destroyers and frigates back in the late 1980s could have hoped to achieve, and they were designed to stop Russian saturation missile attacks.
If approved, it will mean the Anzacs remain capable right through till they pay off, once the interminably-delayed Hunters finally come into service sometime in the mid-2030s.
Mike
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
About time they were fitted with the additional 8 cell VLS. They can only be fitted with one more 8 cell Mk41 VLS giving them 16 Cells giving them 64 ESSM. They were looking at one stage to fit another 8short length VLS forward of the bridge but that is now occupied by the Harpoon and SRBOC. Still a much needed upgrade to the fleet air defence and anti-missile defence capability.
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Hi Russ,
The intention is to fit a second 8 cell VLS behind the funnel and a third ahead of the bridge, with the Harpoon replacement being located on top of the superstructure behind the bridge (where other Meko 200 operators place their SSMs).
Don't know where (or if) the SRBOC will be moved to.
Its apparently been through engineering feasibility studies and found to be do-able.
Mike
The intention is to fit a second 8 cell VLS behind the funnel and a third ahead of the bridge, with the Harpoon replacement being located on top of the superstructure behind the bridge (where other Meko 200 operators place their SSMs).
Don't know where (or if) the SRBOC will be moved to.
Its apparently been through engineering feasibility studies and found to be do-able.
Mike
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
MikeJames wrote:The NSMs will be relocated to the same place every other MEKO 200 operator in the world places their anti-ship missiles, behind the bridge and forward of the funnels and mainmast.
Oh no! Not the durrie pit and after-watch rest area! Where are we going to put the park benches?
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- RussF172
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Oh wow, that is a significant change. The space is there so why not utilise it. They will look different yet again. Thanks for the info Mike.
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Like I said, each upgraded Anzac would then be able to carry 96 Evolved Sea Sparrows.
Of course we would have to have 96 Evolved Sea Sparrows in the RANs inventory...
Mike
Of course we would have to have 96 Evolved Sea Sparrows in the RANs inventory...
Mike
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
This is really great bit of info.
Thanks Mike.
Following the Naracoorte regatta, I reached out to the CO Navy HQ SA regarding if there were any plans of the ANZAC AMCAP new phased array that could be shared for model building purposes. The CO put me in touch with the CMD leading the AMCAP and they have released me some plans. I have these electronically. I think Craig T was trying to build up a collection of plans that may help members, so I'd be very happy to pass these on to Craig.
Sample images - I have more comprehensive PDFs of the whole ship - alas it is not the latest weps upgrades that Mike is referring
I have ordered 2 of Tim's forthcoming Anzac hulls. With all these upgrades there are so many variations on a theme.
Mike if I post some photos with dates in a thread here can you help identify the various sensors and equipment? I'm planning of doing Anzac 2008 Rimpac and as she is now 2021 with the AMCAP phased array.
Thanks
John
Thanks Mike.
Following the Naracoorte regatta, I reached out to the CO Navy HQ SA regarding if there were any plans of the ANZAC AMCAP new phased array that could be shared for model building purposes. The CO put me in touch with the CMD leading the AMCAP and they have released me some plans. I have these electronically. I think Craig T was trying to build up a collection of plans that may help members, so I'd be very happy to pass these on to Craig.
Sample images - I have more comprehensive PDFs of the whole ship - alas it is not the latest weps upgrades that Mike is referring
I have ordered 2 of Tim's forthcoming Anzac hulls. With all these upgrades there are so many variations on a theme.
Mike if I post some photos with dates in a thread here can you help identify the various sensors and equipment? I'm planning of doing Anzac 2008 Rimpac and as she is now 2021 with the AMCAP phased array.
Thanks
John
Last edited by SlatsSSN on 09 Nov 2021 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
He who dies with the most toys, just dies...you can't take it with you.
- SlatsSSN
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
MikeJames wrote:Hi Russ,
The intention is to fit a second 8 cell VLS behind the funnel and a third ahead of the bridge
Mike
This is great - it means that the scale VLS we use - located behind the funnels can be moved away from dumping rocket exhaust gases onto motors - we can put the working cell forward.
He who dies with the most toys, just dies...you can't take it with you.
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SMIT Japan Harbour Tug - (James Slater).
Vivienne Venezia - Harbour Tug.
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HMCS Forest Hill -K486 Flower Class Corvette
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HMS Plymouth F126 - Location: Manly, Sydney
Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
with all these proposed upgrades - will they consider down aft above the hanger a CIWS?
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
To be honest, the Phalanx is a waste of space, one whose time has passed.
It has an effective range of 1600 yards, something any decent supersonic missile will cross in under a second, even if the Phalanx does manage to engage and hit it, the missile chucks will still travel ballistically and hit the ship.
Honestly the RAN should probably replace Phalanx with SeaRAM, it at least has a 10km range, and can try and catch leakers that get through the ESSM defence.
Mike
It has an effective range of 1600 yards, something any decent supersonic missile will cross in under a second, even if the Phalanx does manage to engage and hit it, the missile chucks will still travel ballistically and hit the ship.
Honestly the RAN should probably replace Phalanx with SeaRAM, it at least has a 10km range, and can try and catch leakers that get through the ESSM defence.
Mike
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
[Re:Yet more Anzac upgrades
Unread post09 Nov 2021 12:53
This is really great bit of info.
Thanks Mike.
Following the Naracoorte regatta, I reached out to the CO Navy HQ SA regarding if there were any plans of the ANZAC AMCAP new phased array that could be shared for model building purposes. The CO put me in touch with the CMD leading the AMCAP and they have released me some plans. I have these electronically. I think Craig T was trying to build up a collection of plans that may help members, so I'd be very happy to pass these on to Craig.
Sample images - I have more comprehensive PDFs of the whole ship - alas it is not the latest weps upgrades that Mike is referring
I have ordered 2 of Tim's forthcoming Anzac hulls. With all these upgrades there are so many variations on a theme.
Mike if I post some photos with dates in a thread here can you help identify the various sensors and equipment? I'm planning of doing Anzac 2008 Rimpac and as she is now 2021 with the AMCAP phased array.
Thanks
John
As John I to are looking forward to Tim's new Anzac Hull and with all these upgrades it will be a great project. Scott
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Vivienne Venezia - Harbour Tug.
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Mike - do you know if they have a date for making a decision to go ahead with these upgrades?
Thanks
J
Thanks
J
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SMIT Japan Harbour Tug - (James Slater).
Vivienne Venezia - Harbour Tug.
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HMCS Forest Hill -K486 Flower Class Corvette
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Seek help on the following bits of Anzac in 2008
Wondering if this radar and it's surround round sensor thingys are available as 3D printed parts?
Can anyone please ID the senor on the Left and the cylindrical thing on the right in this photo?
Thanks
J
Wondering if this radar and it's surround round sensor thingys are available as 3D printed parts?
Can anyone please ID the senor on the Left and the cylindrical thing on the right in this photo?
Thanks
J
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
I expect it will be announced in late January or early February
Much later than that and we are in election mode.
Mike
Much later than that and we are in election mode.
Mike
SlatsSSN wrote:Mike - do you know if they have a date for making a decision to go ahead with these upgrades?
Thanks
J
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
SlatsSSN wrote:Seek help on the following bits of Anzac in 2008
Wondering if this radar and it's surround round sensor thingys are available as 3D printed parts?
anzac 2008 mast radar1.JPG
Can anyone please ID the senor on the Left and the cylindrical thing on the right in this photo?
anzac 2008 bridge roof.JPG
Thanks
J
I think Russ does the COMM antenna in second pic (and Homeport models on shapeways does 3d version too).
the round antenna in top pic I made from styrene using a hole punch for Grumpies ANZAC probably in the build log somewhere....
B2
- MikeJames
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Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
I can confirm Russ does the Satcom antennas, as seen here on Protector.
They replaced the old 44 gallon drum-like satcom antennas the RAN used to use.
Mike
They replaced the old 44 gallon drum-like satcom antennas the RAN used to use.
Mike
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SMIT Japan Harbour Tug - (James Slater).
Vivienne Venezia - Harbour Tug.
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HMCS Forest Hill -K486 Flower Class Corvette
HMAS Stuart DE48 (James Slater)
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HMS Plymouth F126 - Location: Manly, Sydney
Re: Yet more Anzac upgrades
Thanks Mike
I'm wondering about the Giraffe radar on the front mast of the early Anzac's - I'm looking for a 3D part but can't find one yet.
Thanks
J
I'm wondering about the Giraffe radar on the front mast of the early Anzac's - I'm looking for a 3D part but can't find one yet.
Thanks
J
He who dies with the most toys, just dies...you can't take it with you.